As we mentioned last Monday, Apple has released new “speed bumped” MacBook Pro 13″, 15″, and 17″ model laptops. These units all show 6Gb/s link capability for both the main drive bay and the optical bay. Right out of the gate all of these models are proving 100% reliable for use of a SATA Revision 3.0 hard drive or OWC 6G SSD installed into the main drive bay.
Just like the Early 2011 models, while we continue to see reliability with 6Gb/s in the optical bay of the 13″ model - the optical bays of the 15″ and 17″ models remain too unstable for 6Gb/s drive use. Although still unstable in the 15″ and 17″, the optical bay SATA signal has improved considerably and we are looking into possibilities that might make 6Gb/s in this bay reliable.
This is the same as drive setup/configuration we saw in the the Early 2011 MacBook Pros. While it had been a long road with various frustrations in terms of using a 6Gb/s SSD in even the main bay of the previous 15” and 17” models – Apple’s EFI 2.2 update resolved most of those issues. Future updates may resolve some fringe issues for those models, but, unfortunately, testing across a significant number of both Early and Late 2011 MacBook Pro models indicate that 6Gb/s is only stable in the main bay of 15” and 17” models, while optical bay 6Gb/s is reliable for 13” models only at this time.
To keep it simple:
- MacBook Pro 13” October/2011 models (2.4GHz and 2.8GHz)
Main Drive Bay = 6Gb/s Good
Optical Bay with Data Doubler = 6Gb/s Good - MacBook Pro 15” October/2011 models (2.2GHz, 2.4GHz and 2.5GHz)
Main Drive Bay = 6Gb/s Good
Optical Bay with Data Doubler = 3Gb/s Drives only, not stable for 6Gb/s capable drives - MacBook Pro 17” October/2011 models (2.4GHz and 2.5GHz)
Main Drive Bay = 6Gb/s Good
Optical Bay with Data Doubler = 3Gb/s Drives only, not stable for 6Gb/s capable drives
Hello.
I have installed an OWC Mercury Electra 6G SSD in my Macbook Pro late 2011.
I get low disc speed test. Using blackmagic I only get 122MB/S write and 181 MB/S read.
Have installed the SSD in the main bay and the old disk with datadoubler in the superdrive bay.
What can be wrong???
BlackMagic uses incompressible data in its testing. On a SandForce-based drive, this would report lower speeds, since the Durawrite technology used in the Sandforce controller compresses data in part to achieve its speed. The BlackMagic test is good for a worst case scenario of write speeds. We’ve found that the QuickBench Speed Tools benchmark (which uses compressible data in its testing) shows more accurate speeds for the average user.
BlackMagic does performance testing to help determine suitability/capability for various video-related functions. Raw video capture deals with compressible data… whereas conversion and editing of already compressed video file types is dealing with incompressible data. If the purpose of your benchmarking is for the optimization of a video production workstation, then BlackMagic would be the test to use – for most other purposes it isn’t going to give real-world results.
OK…
But I still have a bit slow startuptime..
23 sek in average..
Probably memory testing time added to normal boot. Assuming you’ve already set the SSD as the actual startup disk. :)
Hi guys. I’m an owner of a MacBook Pro 15″ (MacBookPro8,2 / late 2011)
I’ve been reading up on the issues regarding the optical bay in the 15″ model MacBook Pro’s, and from what I can tell, the hardware Apple uses for SATA 3 in the Optical Bay simply cannot handle 6 Gb/s even though it states that it is a 6 Gigabit Link Speed. From the System Information panel both SATA Chipsets are identical, but physically they are not?
On the 13″ they do indeed use identical hardware though? Is this what your tests have found is the result of the difference in performance between the 13″ MacBook Pro’s and the 15″ ones?
It gladdens me that you are close to finding a hardware solution for the late 2011 MacBook Pro’s which would fix the Optical Bay SATA 3 performance as I am looking into an SSD SATA 3 RAID 0 setup.
By the way, I bet you have tried an SSD SATA 3 RAID 0 setup in a MacBook Pro 13″ (in which it should work?). Do you have any benchmarks of the performance it gave? Compared to a single SSD SATA 3 perhaps.
Last and not least, I would like to ask you if you think you will be able to offer a hardware RAID 0 solution for the MacBook Pro in the future. I don’t know too much about RAID, but I figured all the RAID’s you’ve tested here are software RAID’s?
Thanks in advance / W
The chipset and controllers absolutely are 6Gb/s SATA 3.0 ready. Problem is that the hardware design appears to have not been done with SATA 3.0 support/qualification in mind. Kind of like putting an 800HP engine into a car and then not having the right transmission to handle that power being transferred to the axles. You can put the tires on that can handle the hire speeds – but try to go to speed and things break in the middle so to speak.
The logic board and cabling is different in the 13″ vs. 15″ vs. 17″ – same Intel Sandybridge base, but different physical designs inside. Just happens that the design and cabling on the 13″ happens to be much better for 6Gb/s in all bays (even before EFI 2.2) that that with the larger models.
Due to issues inherent with the early 2011 models, we’re are unlikely to ever support RAID zero for those 15/17″ models although we may support 6G in the bay. We have another alternative as well. Apple made clear, testable improvements in the late 2011 ‘speed bump’ 15/17″ models when it comes to 6G signal in all bays. The late 2011 models hold the most promise for a RAID 0 possibility with 6Gb/s drives.
The only way to RAID drives between multiple internal bays in the MacBook Pros is via software raid, yes. The RAID-0 performance is nearly double that of a single 6G SSD in the testing we’ve done… but the real world benefits are not equal as many functions can’t take advantage of that performance unless doing heavier duty video/audio, other processing work.
Thanks for a very thorough and quick reply Larry.
Will this fix you’re working on for the MacBook Pro late 2011′s be some hardware you offer or will it be software/firmware based? If it’s hardware, will it come as a separate product for an existing Data Doubler or will it be an upgraded kind of Data Doubler product?
Or is it a firmware update in the works of Apple?
You are welcome and np.
The fix is a hardware solution and is designed to work with our existing Data Doubler. In theory, what were doing should do the job based on what we believe to be the case from observation and testing of the current hardware. We believe the solution will address the weakest link and make reliable SATA 3.0 in at least the late model 15/17″ models possible. I am not getting my hopes up to much though till we test the component. If it works – awesome.. if not, probably be the next MAcBook Pro models before such will be possible – and assuming they even still do 15/17″ full size in that next gen.
As soon as we know something – it will be a new blog post and a comment referencing said will be made here as well. Thanks!
Any news on whether your fix works?
Larry,
Any update on the hardware fix? I purchased a Data Doubler and two Momentus XT 750GB mechanisms – originally deployed them as RAID0 in a 2010 MBP 17″ with, of course, no problem. Went to move the solution into a late 2011 MBP 17″ and the optical bay simply would NOT work with the Momentus XT 750GB drive.
If I cannot get these two Momentus XT 750GB mechanisms working, I guess I will have to revert to standard 750GB drives? The problem I’m trying to overcome is 750GB within a single partition without the performance hit of going from a 750GB drive to a 1TB (2.5″) drive.
Ideas? Recommendations?
-Daniel
As it’s been six months since these machines were launched, I think if OWC were able to do something they would have managed it by now.
Bear in mind that the 6g drive in the normal drive at SATA III bay will significantly increase performance. I’d say put a SATA II drive in the optical bay and you will get a decent level of performance.
Or, do what I’m doing – I’m running a 512gb SSD in the main bay and a 750gb Sata II HD in the optical bay. The speed of the 512 with SATA III is pretty impressive and the 750 isn’t bad either.
PS – I’d also suggest running with 16gb of ram – that’s been a really good upgrade in my view.
Good luck
Hi Guys,
Checking in to see if there is anything we as consumers and tech-geeks can do to ask apple to please consider resolving the SATA 3.0 6G issues… even if its the next generation of 17” MBP’s. The tech sites mention some great upgrades, retina displays, CPU/RAM/GPU/display/storage bumps… to the newest release of MBP’s (not just wish-list items) and the possible deletion of the MBP or 17” MBP anyway.
Understanding that apple and every user wants stability of both hardware and software, and keeping the user experience as simple and painless as possible. That being said a lot of us users are more than just students looking for that cool looking computer made of aluminum/glass, and rely on our equipment to perform at top speed and are continually pushing the technology limits to accomplish this and spend ten to twenty times the amount of money on that equipment/software, as the average student or end-user, using Face-time, eMail, iChat, iPhoto, or maybe Pages, Keynote, and Numbers.
I have been a Mac/Windows user since the late 80’s and some of the software I use, has to run on windows only, some are server addressed and we pay a very high monthly fees to access the software on our machine, Xactimate, Chief Architect, SolidWorks, Catia, RISA, AutoCAD, Rivet, Maya 3D, 3ds Max, Inventor, Excel, Word, PowerPoint, Project, Visio, BDXL Disc burning, and… all run better on Windows.
CS5/6 Master Collection/Design-Web-Production Creative Suites, Photoshop Extended, Lightroom, AfterEffects, PS Audition, Premier Pro, FCP7, Logic Studio, Ableton 8, and… all run better on Mac OSX. CAD rendering/raytracing, uncompressed video processing, lossless sound processing, extra large super-size files/super-heavy Excel usage, etc… All of these are CPU/GPU/RAM/SSD Super-Hogs.
Not everyone wants to use just a windows based PC… of which we all know there is a plethora or myriad of hardware/software available. If I were a heavy gamer and want spend seven to twenty-five+ thousand dollars, I could have a very nice machine dual six-core Xeon processors wH2O cooling, 96GB+DDR3 RAM, four-way GPUs, with four to six huge super 4K-SHD monitors, SSD’s for each OS/App’s, as many storage drives in server racks as budget will allow, etc… and/or a Maxed-out MacPro to a similar config with OSX Server or XSAN w/fiber connection for mega storage. We have been waiting over two years for the new MP… (your new PCE SSD looks great!!!) Still waiting… for the New MP release soon maybe, (great for fixed location), the only problem with that it would not be very portable if need-be.
That is why I use a pair of late 2011 17” MBP 2.5GHz 500GB SSD, 16GB RAM with an OWC DD/SATA2 3G 500/750GB HDD in the second bay for storage, Pioneer BDR-XD04 ext. BDXL/DVD/CD drive, the factory MBP superdrive in the OWC enclosure, Wintec 48GB SSD 3G ExpressCards (MS-DOS Format) and eSATA Drive ExpressCards in the ExpressCard 34 slot to enable fast FTR (SATA 3G) usage between OSX/Windows transferring of files or computers if need-be (also Flash Drives of all sizes, but not as fast FTR). When at the office or home I can use two Thunderbolt Displays and TB/FW/eSATA Storage, or if need-be I have a portable work station that I can take anywhere, to meet with customers or just outside to get fresh air.
It would be really nice to see a MBP 17” with a retina display with 2560×1600+ res, Intel 2.7 GHz i7-3820QM or ++ Ivy bridge Quad Core CPU, 16/32GB 1600/2000 MHz DDR3 RAM, two 500-1TB 6G SSD’s (Like a lot of other PC Manufacturers already do, for RAID or OS/Separate Storage), TB/USB 3.0/FW/eSATA/ExpressCard 34/54 to run whatever, external BDXL/DVD/CD Drive for optical disc usage (Ext. slim Pioneer BDR-XD04 or Int. Pioneer BDR-206MBK desktop 5.25” in an enclosure), up to 100-125GB on one BRXL-SL/DL/TL/QL Optical Disc for back-up or an extra archive for the multiple back-up HDD’s.
Dear Apple… please do not drop to the 17” MBP line, even if it only sells half as many units, there are tested professionals now making a living with it, and it is the best portable PC I have ever used or owned, it is a serious work station with many options, and an excellent portable work-horse all in one!
Did you guys see Apple release a new EFI for the Macbook Pros today?
Does this EFI update fix the optical bay issue??
yes
and no… it doesn’t appear to benefit 6Gb/s SATA 3.0 optical stability.
That’s unfortunate.
Even with OWC’s new firmware update, the stability doesn’t improve?
Here’s to hoping the next EFI update will fix the issue.
Do you think an EFI update could fix these reliability issues?
The hardware shortcomings of the optical bay with respect to what’s required for SATA 3.0 6Gb/s signal is not something we can overcome on our side with software. Not even close. This is not a drive side issue by any means – all about the Apple factory hardware not being capable as provided to support 6Gb/s link operation in the optical bay. We are close to being able to test a possible solution which involves physical hardware – it has a decent chance of making the bay operable for 6Gb/s on the Late 2011 models 15/17″ – it’s honestly unlikely to be a solution for the earlier 2011 models which are FAR FAR FAR worse to begin with. Apple did improve things in the late 2011 update, but they still had no reason to qualify and enable 6Gb/s reliability in the optical bay and they don’t put 6Gb/s drives into that bay.
It’s frustrating, but this is Apple.
“We are close to being able to test a possible solution which involves physical hardware – it has a decent chance of making the bay operable for 6Gb/s on the Late 2011 models 15/17”
I hope you are successful. I have two spare SSD’s waiting to be configured for RAID 0. Is there any way to be updated about this specific issue?
From what I’ve gathered, there’s a zero chance of 6Gb connections working reliably in the optical bay. If OWC Larry or anyone else points out there there’s a slim chance of it working, I would test it myself.
My Macbook Pro was custom configured and delivered on Feb 13th so it’s very new. Who knows what they could have changed without anyone knowing. And my extra SSD’s are the Samsung 830’s. Have you by any chance tested them even though they are a competing product. :)
Hell, I might end up testing it myself anyway when I have less on my plate.
While we do carry a few non-OWC branded SSDs, the Samsung models aren’t among them – so we haven’t tested. 6Gb/s capable drives are reliable in the main bay, but not the optical bay.
Hi OWC,
Having problems installing new OWC SSD Pro 6G 120 GB in new 13″ MacBook Pro 2.4 GHz i5 (both purchased early 2012; MBP from amazon).
Have successfully formatted SSD, and installed OSX on it with disc utility then OSX install using a SATA/USB adapter. Can boot from SSD while it is attached via USB/SATA adapter. Problem arises when SSD is installed into the original HDD bay, SSD is not recognized, get ?-mark folder when restarting MBP. Booting from recovery drive, SSD is not showing up in disc utility, it is like it is not there.
Reinstalling the original HDD restores MBP to booting just fine off of the HDD, so I do not believe I have accidentally compromised the SATA cable connections.
Furthermore, when SSD is installed in optical drive bay, SSD is recognized in disc utility, etc. but upon attempting to boot from it, no success, unable to erase and reformat SSD while in optical drive bay either.
Attempting to update the firmware to MBP EFI 2.3 get allert pop-up stating software is not supported on your system.
Any advice you can offer would be most welcome, have spent many hours trying to troubleshoot this so far.
Thanks,
Hardwin
Our Technical Support Department would be happy to help troubleshoot. They can be contacted at 1(800)275-4576, via live chat, or by e-mail.
Hi.
first of all, sorry for my poor english.
i bought MBP 2011 Late (i7 2.5 CTO / 8GB) & OWC Mercury Extreme Pro 6G 240GB in last week.
eject HDD 750GB and insert Mercury Extreme Pro 6G in MBP’s main bay.
—————————————————————————————-
Product: 6 Series Chipset
Link Speed: 6 Gigabit
Negotiated Link Speed: 6 Gigabit
Description: AHCI Version 1.30 Supported
OWC Mercury EXTREME Pro 6G SSD:
Capacity: 240.06 GB (240,057,409,536 bytes)
Model: OWC Mercury EXTREME Pro 6G SSD
Revision: 332ABBF0
Serial Number: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Native Command Queuing: Yes
Queue Depth: 32
Removable Media: No
Detachable Drive: No
BSD Name: disk0
Medium Type: Solid State
TRIM Support: No
Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)
S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified
Volumes:
disk0s1:
Capacity: 209.7 MB (209,715,200 bytes)
BSD Name: disk0s1
Content: EFI
Mac:
Capacity: 239.2 GB (239,197,650,944 bytes)
Available: 97.64 GB (97,636,978,688 bytes)
Writable: Yes
File System: Journaled HFS+
BSD Name: disk0s2
Mount Point: /
Content: Apple_HFS
Recovery HD:
Capacity: 650 MB (650,002,432 bytes)
BSD Name: disk0s3
Content: Apple_Boot
————————————————————————
everything is seems like normal.
but… there’s something wrong. speed problem
here’s my xbench results.
http://kaymix.mine.nu/disk/bench01.jpg
http://kaymix.mine.nu/disk/bench02.jpg
———————————————————————–
Model Name: MacBook Pro
Model Identifier: MacBookPro8,3
Processor Name: Intel Core i7
Processor Speed: 2.5 GHz
Number of Processors: 1
Total Number of Cores: 4
L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB
L3 Cache: 8 MB
Memory: 8 GB
Boot ROM Version: MBP81.0047.B26
SMC Version (system): 1.70f5
Serial Number (system):
Hardware UUID:
Sudden Motion Sensor:
State: Enabled
————————————————————–
what’s the problem? plz help me.
thankyou.
Actually, from looking over your specifications and reviewing your BlackMagicDesign Disk Speed Test results, it doesn’t look like there is anything wrong. You’re within the acceptable range on Incompressible data read/writes speeds of up to 479MB/s and 282MB/s respectively as shown under the specifications tab on the product page.
hi. thank you for your answer.
but other test results(black magic design speed test) is 516mb / 504mb Write / Read.
what’s different between my system?
http://www.mactrast.com/2011/07/mactrast-reviews-owc-mercury-electra-6g/
thankyou.
The difference isn’t in your system, it’s in the data you’re transferring. Compressible data includes your operating system, applications, and many of your documents and files that can be stored on the drive in a smaller space without losing any integrity – but incompressible data has either already been compressed (or zipped) or by nature cannot be compressed further like with many types of videos, music and photos.
ok. i understood.
well, how can i get same result (or right result – about 500MB / 500MB R/W)?
tell me which tool is show me the same result.
or if i’ll test blackmagic speed tool again, which condition is important?
i have 4.7GB MKV file. where i placed this file.
thankyou.
To further add –
Black Magic does performance testing to help determine suitability/capability for various video related functions. Raw video capture deals with compressible data… whereas conversion to MP4, etc and editing of already compressed video file types is dealing with incompressible data. The performance of the drive is different, as described in it’s listing, for these two different data types. The Black Magic test for incompressible provides a worst case performance of that data streaming performance assuming the least/totally incompressible data being handled. I hope this information helps the understanding.
Hello,
Is there any more news on this topic? I know a few people waiting for an answer.
Has there been any change in the very latest iteration of the late 2011 15 and 17 inch macbook pros?
Did anything come of OWC’s investigations of a possible fix in November?
Thanks.
Nothing has changed since this post, so we don’t have anything new to update.
I just want to have said this again for those who are weary about buying OWC SSD’s, despite the fact that I remain angry at both Apple and OWC over the handling of ultimately only slightly related issues, although they both have to do with the 6Gb/s in the optical bay.
This is NOT the fault of OWC’s superbly made Solid State Drives (SSDs). I own two 120GB Mercury EXTREME drives and they work perfectly in a 2011 Mac mini, for example. They also work great in RAID 0 mode, which is when you experience speeds that are quite a bit above Thunderbolt drives, unless you chain together half a dozen Thunderbolt drives and then you’re still only neck-and-neck with just two OWC drives in RAID 0.
I have not seen reports on the later EFI v2.3?
The Apple summary suggests further improvement to the target disk mode, which if relating to access speed would seem report worthy?
Thx
EFI 2.3 does not resolve issues with 6G SATA 3.0 drives in the 15″ or 17″ optical bays.
The SATA 3.0-6Gb/s Optical Bay stability issue in 17”/15” MBP’s…
Has anyone installed the new Seagate Momentus XT 750GB SSHD (ST750LX003) to see if the 6Gb/s stability issue is related only to SSD/HDD’s or All three types of drives with SATA III/6Gb/s interfaces (SSD/SSHD/HDD)? In the notes it is stated that it effects HDD’s also, but nothing is mentioned about SSHD’s.
Just curious if it’s use of Hybrid Technology/Firmware, could possibly make a difference in stability.
-FAST Factor™ Flash Management
-FAST Factor Boot
-Adaptive Memory™ Technology
Also when are you going to be offering this Seagate Momentus XT 750GB SSHD (ST750LX003) as well as the Seagate Momentus XT 500GB SSHD (ST95005620AS) already on the OWC Website?
Hello David, the issues revolve around the SATA Revision 3.0 6Gb/s drives in general. Whether they’re SSD, traditional or hybrid makes no difference.
It’s true that free Blackmagic Disk Speed Test reports an only 260mb/s write speed. While I tried Quickbench and this time every thing goes right.. around 500/500 read and write on my mercury extreme 6g 240GB SSD, 17” late 2011 MBP.
This is actually something good to keep in mind; if you’re getting unusual readings from one benchmarking program, you may want to try a couple of others to see if they’re getting the same results. It’s when multiple apps are reporting the same unusual readings that you may have something to look into.
are you referring to mercury extreme pro 6g in optibay? it reads/writes at 500/500? i returned mine since my tests revealed completely unstable performance of the mercury extreme pro 6g when it put that in the optical bay. when did you purchase your 2011 17″ macbook pro?
Blackmagic work perfectly but gives the performances on incompressible data.
Is there a way to get performances with compressibles data on OS X Lion??? AJA System Test doesn’t start on OS X Lion..
AJA System Test is Lion compatible. We’ve been using it to benchmark several of our external enclosures under Lion for quite some time now.
But you can’t run it if you’re running Lion OS X on the SDD and try to benchmark this SSD.. I’m sure see this http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/98/878831 so I can’t benchmark my new Mercury Extreme Pro 6G, is there another solution?
Has there been any testing done by OWC to determine where the problem might be with having a SATA 3.0, 6Gbps-compatible drive in the optical drive bay, i.e. run a longer cable from the optical bay port to a drive that’s sitting away from the ‘board..?
Is it perhaps an issue of shielding, the cable, port on the motherboard, or some combination of those? I’m curious to see if I can come up with a very clean DIY solution if it’s a problem of interference like it was in the main drive bay.
Using a different cable has not been tested, mostly because of the types of ribbon cable connector used on the logic board, which is where a “test” cable would need to be connected.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Lion will include a firmware update in Spring of 2012 to accommodate a 6G optical bay. In fact I doubt there will be a true optical bay in 2012. Most likely it will be a standard 128 GB SSD in the main bay and then a 750 GB Sata III in the former optical bay. The Sata controller has been put into place now because the supplier was able to provide it and all Apple needs to do is adjust the hardware configuration as needed (for example Spring MBP updates) and there you will have it 6G in both the main may bay and the optical bay. The optical bay will be gone across all Mac platforms by 2013 including the Mac Pro’s.
Anyone success with 2 OWC SATA3 SSD (RAID 0) in 13″ MBP late or early 2011?
Mine is 13″ MBP early 2011 with 6/6. However, I can’t get RAID 0 with 2 OCZ SATA3 SSD. If 2 OWC SATA3 SSD can do RAID 0, then I will consider to change mine. But I want to know who else success with 2 OWC SATA 3 SSD (RAID 0) in his/her 13″ MBP late or early 2011?
Thanks!
Hi, Eddie. I can’t comment on OCZ, but I know that our drives will work 100% with that configuration.
When is the Mac version of the firmware update for the 6g Extreme drive coming out. Isn’t this ‘macsales.com’? I’ve had piss poor luck with my 6G drive. Two early 2011 15″ MBPs and now a late 15″ 2.5. I’ve determined that it is not Apple at all, but this drive.
Someone recently contacted me about returning my drive and having OWC do the firmware update, but I simply cannot be without my computer for more than 12 hours.
Just reported this through the Apple Bug Reporter website (via Developer program):
[BEGIN]
Summary:
- 2011 15″ and 17″ MacBook Pros optical bay report wrong link speed of 6 Gigabit.
- 6 Gigabit devices (SSD via OptiBay) connected to the optical bay are not recognized.
- 3 Gigabit devices (SSD via OptiBay) connected to the optical bay are recognized.
Requested enhancement:
- Make the optical bay on the affected models advertise a correct maximum link speed of 3 Gigabit, so that 6 Gigabit devices will be recognized and run in 3 Gigabit mode. Better to run slower than not being recognized at all.
Steps to Reproduce:
- Take a 2011 15″ or 17″ MacBook Pro.
- Verify in System Profiler that it reports “Link Speed: 6 Gigabit” on the optical bay SATA port.
- Replace the optical drive with a 6 Gigabit SSD (via Optibay/DataDoubler)
Expected Results:
- 6 Gigabit (SATA 3) SSD recognized
Actual Results:
- 6 Gigabit (SATA 3) SSD not recognized at all
Links:
- http://blog.macsales.com/10433-macbook-pro-2011-models-and-sata-3-0-6-0gbs-update-5272011
- http://blog.macsales.com/12410-apple%E2%80%99s-latest-2011-macbook-pro-refresh-using-sata-3-0-6gbs-drives
Notes:
- We are aware that using an OptiBay is not officially supported. That’s why we classified this issue as an “Enhancement” :) You would make a lot of users happy if we could at least get our 6G SSDs recognized and run at 3G in the optical bay.
- Some 2011 15″ or 17″ MacBook Pros shipped in spring 2011 came with the optical bay reporting “Link Speed: 3 Gigabit”. The currently shipped models again report the non-working 6G. The correct setting from the spring 2011 batch(es) should be enabled on all 2011 MBPs.
[END]
Case ID is 10429854 if anyone needs to reference my report.
While having two stable 6Gb/s SATA 3.0 ports in the MacBook Pro 2011 15″ and 17″ would be nice… I agree and we have long been ‘suggesting’ that the optical bay link be reduced to the 3Gb/s link it is reliable for instead of even allowing a 6Gb/s link to attempt. That said – there may yet be a custom solution that allows advantage be taken, but it’s not simple. Regardless… I’d be very happy to have the full benefit of modern SSDs even with 3Gb/s limitation as most of the heavy lifting occurs with transfer types that operate below 300MB/s as it is. We looked at software options for controlling the SATA 2.0/3.0 enable, but Apple locks that down hard and simply isn’t a legal option via the means necessary to control this.
Please let us know how they respond to your ‘enhancement’ request/suggestion. thanks!
There’s a bit of false advertising here. I just got off the phone with an OWC Tech Support Rep after experiencing constant beach balls on my Late 2011 13″ MBP i7 with the OWC Mercury Extreme Pro 6G. This was actually my second attempt at using one of these drives (the first one arrived defective).
The tech support rep on the phone said that OWC had indeed been hearing increasing reports of issues on the new 13″ MacBook Pros. The support calls he had been fielding are not as rosy as this blog post makes them out to be. He actually recommended that I downgrade to a SATA II drive instead of going with a SATA III. In fairness, he also said that he had one confirmed report that a replaced motherboard (through Apple) might help.
Now, I feel stuck with a dilemma. Do I run the gamble with trying to get Apple to replace my motherboard — not knowing if it will actually fix my problems with the 6G SSD, or do I downgrade to a SATA II drive and give up the potential performance benefits? All in all, this situation seems to be a complete mess. Even if Apple’s fault, it seems like there’s lots of misinformation on the topic.
That kind of tech commentary will be reviewed as it is not supported by the facts. The new/current model 13/15/17″ have been rock solid for the Main bay.
Before EFI 2.2, the early 2011 13″ models (models prior to Oct/2011 refresh), we’re rarely an issue while the 15″ had some incidence and then having a stable 17″ was the exception. EFI 2.2 (and 2.3 didn’t change this or anything related that was observable to the 6G issue) by in large corrected all outstanding issues that were not related to a hardware issue.
The units we’ve seen with issue remaining following EFI 2.2, and also have specifically a 13″ report in the other blog thread to this end, have either benefited from the current SSD Firmware update (released about a month ago) or have had a separate hardware problem – most typically a bad/non-6G stable SATA cable. This cable issue has been a separate, but present issue with the 2011 MacBook Pros and 6G drives going back to the February release. Should add – signals issues of this nature are not good on drives either in terms of operational reliability and changes in the Sandforce firmware do more today to prevent bad SATA 6G bus/power stability from panicing the SSD.
Bottom line is that any continued beach balling issue is very likely a bad cable in the system or other related hardware level problem – making the assumption that all firmware/EFI is current. Our tech lead will reach out to you and happy to work to see it fully resolved. We have no benefit in selling a product to customers of any specific platform if an issue is present and continue to call out such issues as it is a lose-lose scenario for such use attempts.
Thanks for the feedback!
Just curious if you tried SATA 3 SSD that does not use Sandforce Controller? I know Windows crew have had nothing but trouble with SF-2200/2100 FirmWare. Just wondering if that could have some thing to do with it. Samsung 830 might be good one to test.
We don’t comment on internal testing results of competitive products unless there is something grossly inaccurate or misrepresented that we feel consumers have a right to know.
And while we do test other brands, we mostly focus on making sure our Mercury SSDs run faster and longer than any other brand…and back it with the longest warranty and first 30 day Money Back Guarantee offered. ;-)
I will add to this… the issues have actually been worse with some other non-Sandforce 6G drives – which I believe has to do with the housing design and related signal impact from said. This is not a Sandforce issue. Not only that, even SATA 3.0 6Gb/s 2.5″ hard drives are impacted by the issue… not just SSD… SATA 3.0 Drives in general these comments/experiences/recommendations apply to.
hi, when i buy the OWC Mercury pro 6g in Belgia, will i still have 5 years warranty ?
thanks
Hi Kim and thanks for stopping by.
Yes…our warranty is offered for five years, regardless of where you live. See this link for our 6G 5 yr warranty terms:
http://eshop.macsales.com/Service/warranty/owc_ssd_pro6g.cfm
Perhaps there should be a big warning banner on the site and in the further upstream buying forms about this incompatibility? I bought a 6g SSD and Doubler kit and installed it. I guess that’s why it won’t allow itself to be partitioned. Sigh. A wasted couple of hours and high hopes killed!
We will look at increasing the call out of the special notes that apply to 15″ and 17″ 2011 MacBook Pro models. When purchasing the DD bundles with 6G drive for these models, the ideal installation is putting the new 6G SSD into the main bay and moving the stock hard drive into the optical bay. Sorry for any inconvenience. Thank you for the feedback!
I hear you. Went through the exact same thing. I am also not getting the advertised speeds (especially Write speeds) in the Main HDD bay of my Late-2011 17″ MBP. While it remains true that Apple did not advertise the existence of SATA III in the optical bay, or the “main” HDD bay, for that matter. However, there may be an implied warranty by virtue of the fact that the logic board that Apple decided to go with for the 2011 MacBook Pro’s – which incorporates the Z68 chipset from Intel – happens to support it.
I would really like to receive this specially shielded SATA cable for the optical bay and try this again. I’m about to order the 1-port OWC-branded eSATA card, along with another ExpressCard/34 from Sonnet. Can that little bitty SATA cable make its way into that package?
At any rate, I’ll post again when I know more.
This SATA cable you make reference to doesn’t currently exist and nothing yet to confirm that will be the solution. In the case of the Main Bay, was more than just a cable issue – although cable differences and shielding did significantly affect the issue and even resolve depending on the degree of problem from the other aspects. Apple made firmware adjustments to overcome these things in the main drive bay – the optical bay was not improved. I’d love to see the optical bay be a SATA 3.0 6Gb/s winner for 15″ and 17″ models and we’re looking into it. As Apple only expects to support an optical drive in that bay, they have little to no interest or reason to work on fixing 6G optical bay issues… especially since the optical drives they install at the factory are SATA 1.5Gb/s. Frustrating that 6Gb/s is even enabled to that bay in 15/17 when it’s not supported/working as implemented.
I would like to ask Desmond which hard drive testing application he is using when he reports that he is “not getting the advertised speeds (especially Write speeds) in the Main HDD bay of my Late-2011 17″ MBP.”
I wasn’t either using the Lion compatible, free Blackmagic Disk Speed Test. However, I downloaded Intech’s SpeedTools Utilities to test the drive. That test produced read/write speeds of 509/495 MB/s maximums.
I suggest he do the same, because the BM test is not accurate.
Thanks, for reply. I got answer i was looking for. I was just wondering if BSOD bug they finally reproduce might have some thing to do with optical bay 6G performence. I own early 17 ” and it sits and collects dust for most part. I keep hopping issue gets work out with firmware update. I still have issue with main bay RUNNING SATA 3 6Gbps with current EFI 2.3. It runs good for a week with fresh clone or re-install. Then beach balls & lock ups start, alignment way off track, and drive is fragmented to hell & back, Couple of time EFI partitions has move add it’s starting block at back of drive. Apple already replace mobo. Im over research and trying different hacks to make it work right, I guess it’s time to sell it and wait on 2012 re-design MBP.
There are multiple things that have been going on – including outside of Apple – to best accommodate the Early 2011 MacBook Pro Main Bay 6Gb/s link reliability woes. This SSD you are referring to – is it an OWC SSD or brand X? I ask as more than one customer, including one who did post in our other thread on the 6G issues, switched from a ‘brand X’ 6G SSD to the OWC SSD and have had success – this after the EFI 2.2 update. This with respect to the Main Bay.
As for the optical bay – this is a signal quality issue and nothing related to BSOD that I am aware of. That bay and supporting hardware was not designed by all indications for SATA 3.0 compliance, was never intended for SATA 3.0 6Gb/s drives, and in the case of the 15″ and 17″ Macbook Pros that have 6G link shown for that bay – it’s going to be a challenge, if even possible, to get it working for 6G in the new Sept/2011 models and highly unlikely for the Feb/2011 IMHO.
It’s not OWC, it uses same controller from Sandforce. I do own several of your SSD. I purchase MBP day 1 and bought only SATA 3 SSD on market at the time that wash ‘C3000. You guys were still not sure of ETA 6G. I know you guys tweak firmware, this isn’t firmware issue as far as i can tell. I’ve tested, replace, & jump threw hoops to get this machine stable, it’s been learning curve i like to forget about. It felt like 2011 was year of beta testing for Intel Sandy Bridge line up. I own 2010 MP, 2008MBP, 2011 MBP, Hackintosh workstation P67. It’s been trouble shooting year starting with P67 mobo recall with B-3 revisiion leading straight into MBP issue. As soon as Apple or Somebody gets 17 ” stable, I want to put 2 x 240 OWC 6G as RAID 0 with 16GB RAM. Im not going to spend $ until i know for sure it’s going to work.
We support a 30 Day Money Back on our SSDs for a lot of good reasons. There are plenty of differences between our SSD models and even other sandforce based. I think the other you’re referring to is Crucial C300, that was their 1st Gen 6G SSD from 2010 replaced in 2011 with their M4. The C300 was actually lower performance than our 3G SSDs for various tasks. Regardless – if it is a c300 referred to, that is not a Sandforce based SSD. If it’s someone else’s SF228X based 6G Sandforce Driven SSD, still could see success with our brand. FWIW, we were the 2nd manufacturer to introduce Sandforce Driven 6G SSD models and that was right on the heals of the first… :)
Sorry, typo error “that was no’t” C3000. One i have is 240GB Vertex 3, -Im pretty sure I’ll have same problem with your one of your drives. Im more than likely going to put SATA II in this MBP and put it on Ebay. I’ve been waiting on your guys test results on New MBP before i make decision. Seeing results, it might just be in my best interest to wait for re-design 17″ MBP hope it’s stable. I wish Apple would have come up with solution for dedicated pro users. Seems it’s all about iOS and time for professionals to start thinking of other ways to perform there day to day operations.
Hi, i bought in owc sdd 6G 240 gb for mi macbook pro late 2011 and OWC Data Doubler for replace my superdrive, the final configuration will be: Main drive bay with SSD 6G ELECTRA 240GB and Optical Drive bay with Data Doubler and HD 500GB 5400RPM 9.5mm original apple, TOSHIBA MK5065GSXF.
This is my question, will i have a problem with this setup?
Than you very much.
As long as you have a 9.5mm drive, you shouldn’t have a problem.
All stock Apple drives are 9.5mm and will fit in the optical bay via our data doubler without issue. The hard drives, on their labels, also typically indicate whether they are a 6Gb/s or 3Gb/s drive version.
the specifications I see for MK5065GSXF Toshiba 500GB indicate this is a SATA 2.0 3Gb/s drive and this will work without issue in your optical bay via DD. All good.
To all: Note that drives showing SATA 3.0 6Gb/s should be used in the main bay of 15″ and 17″ 2011 models that report 6Gb/s link speed in those bays. 6Gb/s drives are fine in optical bay of 13″ models as well as any 15″ or 17″ model that is only reporting 3Gb/s link present.
Have you tried testing the 6.0Gb/s SSD connected to the Optical Drive bay port with a Main Drive bay cable? It wouldn’t be pretty booting the system with the guts hanging out, but it could prove the problem lies in the Optical Drive bay cable.
Different style connectors between the two connectors. We’re continuing to test a number of different approaches to this issue – stay tuned!
This is, of course, assuming that the OWC Data Doubler actually fits (physically) within the latest models (i.e. they haven’t changed their case design or w/e), correct?
If so, could you please change the details on the Data Doubler product page to confirm: http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/DDAMBS0GB/
Currently, it does not mention “Late 2011″ MBP as compatible.
Thanks!
Aw Dang Colin…you are right…thanks. We’ll update the page shortly. But Yes….Data Doubler fits just fine…case DIMS haven’t changed at all…just the speed bump.
Hey guys. I am just wondering if a newer data doubler was made that is faster. I bought one over a year ago and don’t know if would even support 6g (if it were working)
The OWC DataDoubler, which we first began shipping late November of 2010 just under a year ago, is fully SATA 3.0 6Gb/s capable since the first units we produced. No change has been made to the product nor needed with respect to SATA 3.0 support. But – as noted – the Apple Optical Bay in the 15″ and 17″ 2011 models (many of which have SATA 3.0 6Gb/s port enabled) are not reliable for drives that are more than SATA 2.0 3Gb/s. You can use a Data Doubler with a 6Gb/s SATA 3.0 drive in the 13″ MacBook Pro 2011 models which do typically have fully reliable 6Gb/s optical capability when the SATA 3.0 6Gb/s is shown available there. For 15″ and 17″ models- should stick with only SATA 2.0 3Gb/s Drives in terms of installation to the optical bay via Data Doubler, etc.
A head’s up to those using the Blackmagic Disk Speed Test, a free download available from the App Store, to test the write/read speeds of the OWC Mercury Extreme Pro in Lion.
It consistently reported write speeds for my Mercury Extreme Pro 240GB drive that maxed at 269 MB/s or so. Read speeds were about 495 MB/s.
I contact OWC support, and was able to download Intech’s SpeedTools Utilities to test the drive. The produced read/write speeds of 509/495 MB/s maximums.
The BM tool did not correctly report write speeds.
Thanks for OWC for great support.
Interesting. I used the Blackmagic Disk Speed Test and was getting only 180MB/s write speeds for my 120GB OWC Mercury Extreme Pro in Lion.
I think I have the same issue with your experience…. write speeds around 270 with Blackmagic Disk Speed Test
I think Black Magic uses incompressible data in it’s testing. On a Sandforce drive, this would report much lower speeds, since the Sandforce controller compresses data in part to achieve it’s speed. The 500MBs+ is only possible with compressible data. Thus the program is not reporting the speed incorrectly, it’s just reflecting the speed the Sandforce controller can achieve with incompressible date. Even the Mercury EXTREME Pro 6G can only achieve 285 MB/s writing such data, according to OWC: http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Mercury_6G/
I wonder what caused the incompatibility with SATA 2.0 drives in the first place. Has any of the hardware changed between the early 2011 and the late 2011 MacBook Pros to have influenced compatibility?
sorry for any confusion – there is not currently and has never been any issue compatibility or otherwise with the utilization of SATA 2.0 3Gb/s drives in either bay of any 2011 (Feb or new October models) MacBook Pro.
The issue had been with the reliability of signal for SATA 3.0 6Gb/s drives… an issue by in large overcome in the early 2011 15/17″ models with firmware tweaking by Apple engineers (and also some bad cable replacements in addition there to). There are no physical differences that stand out in the new October models.
Now that there are 1 TB 2.5 inch hard drives in a standard 9.5 mm format this is really a non-issue, Before you needed the extra height for the 12.5 mm drives, but not anymore
That’s my personal setup – 1TB Samsung in the optical bay and OWC EXTREME Pro 6G in the main bay. Got my extra storage, 2nd boot volume for any maintaining, and time machine volume. Can’t complain at all. Full speed and max cap. :)
Larry does the optical bay support 7200 RPM drives?
I’m thinking of buying the new macbook pro with the 7200 RPM drive option and move that over to the optical bay to make room for a mercury extreme 6g ssd in the main bay…
You said you use the samsung 1TB but it’s only 5400 RPM so I wasn’t sure..
How’s the performance on it?
7200RPM Drive models current within the last 24 months are absolutely A-OK in the optical bay. That said – the 1TB Samsung is the fastest 5400RPM drive we’ve tested… the Seagate 7200.4 Momentus drives and Hitachi 7K500/7K750 are anywhere from 5-15% faster at various block levels – but the Samsung is supporting 110-125MB/s that is more than quick enough for my secondary purposes.
Getting back to the performance of 5400RPM – all drives in general today have been getting faster and faster as platter density has been going up. The heads don’t need to travel as far a distance for data R and W which is where drive speeds have continued to improve.
I’m sold.
So two questions:
If I buy the standard data doubler kit for the 480gb ssd (mercury extreme pro 6g), and I put the ssd in the main bay, can I use the data doubler to house the Sammy 1TB in the optical bay?
Will doing this affect either the standard apple warranty and / or apple care?
What about adding the 16gb ram? Does this void apple warrant / AppleCare in any way?
1.) Yes, so long as you have a 9.5mm HD it should work fine.
2.) the Turnkey warranty does NOT cover a customer-installable part. For more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act
3.) No, this will not void your warranties already in place.
It wasn’t mentioned in the blog post originally – but was the latest EFI Update 2.3 applied or already in the late 2011 MBP models you tested above? (I assume so but no mention of it so wanted to confirm).
Originally apple didn’t list the v2.3 update as for the late 2011′s, but added them to the doc a couple days later. (Apparently at least some of the late 2011′s first production builds shipped w/o the latest firmware.)
But IIRC an owner of a Late 2011 MBP (‘Desmond’) in your 17in unboxing blog post said it didn’t help. (not sure that’s typical – so wanted to confirm if your test machines had the latest firmware.)
Yes, we did test EFI v2.3 on our machines. (We make sure all FW updates are applied prior to testing.)
Here suggestion on how to make it work.
1st. Build RAID from external Boot Drive
2nd. Use iPartition or GPTfdisk create Fake RAID with EFI & MBR Code to /dev/disk1
3rd Alignment needs to be align with Nand. SSD with 25nm try :
– EFI “size 200MB at starting sector 8192″
- /dev/disk1 “Enter Size” at starting sector 417,792
Any word on when your firmware update tool is compatible with the 2011 MacBook Pros?
Support for more model Macs is on its way. When we do have it, we’ll announce it both here on the OWC Blog and on the Firmware Updater download page.
I’ve been hitting refresh to see the verdict on this.
Very disappointed to hear that Apple has yet to address this optical bay issue.
That’s a tough one…. that bay really only needs to be 3Gb/s SATA 2.0 – or even just SATA 1.5Gb/s for the optical drives that bay is designed for. I’ve never seen an Apple factory optical drive linking at faster than SATA 1.5Gb/s and really no optical drive out there today in that profile fast enough to need a higher link rate. That being said – it is frustrating to see 6Gb/s link present and effectively unusable. It would still be a disappointment to have only a 3Gb/s port SATA 2.0 link in the optical bay – but I’d be more than happy with that in 15″ and 17″ since it would be 100% reliable for any drive pretty much you’d want to replace the optical drive with. We’ll see – with the improvements that are definitely measurable between prior 2011 and the new Oct/2011 updated models, there is some hope and possibility that we may be able to do a 6G solution for the optical bay. I don’t want to mislead or get hopes up though as nothing certain yet by any means or short term expected. Anyway… I’m just happy that the main bay is reliable for our 6Gb/s drives now – after a good 6 months wrestling with that one, so glad to have that in the rear view mirror.
A glimmer of hope!
Would this “fix” be something along the lines of a shielded cable like last time? Or something else?
Any clues to satiate the power hungry users out there? :)
1 GB/S…. drool.
Not quite that simple unfortunately.